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Thread: In Kihei, Maui

  1. #1
    Senior Member carrhd's Avatar
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    In Kihei, Maui

    Hello, aquaium folks.

    Anita, Lily, and I are in Kihei on Maui for the next few days. We're heading back next Thursday. Our flight leaves close to midnight and after a stop in Vancouver arrives in Ottawa on Friday around 6 PM. With 6 hours of time difference we've got around 12 hours of travel time.

    Lily and I walked on the beach today and found fully encrusted live rock rolling in the surf everywhere. We traveked light at one bag each so we could carry back 150 lbs at no additional charge. Wat I'm wondering is this...does anyone have any experience with CITES and beach found like rock? Can anyone offer advice? Tips?

    Email me or PM me if you can.

    Thanks,

    Hank
    220G mixed reef main, 30 G (3 x 10) brood/grow-out, 25 G secondary, 6 G frag with shared sump

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  2. #2
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    I don't think you will be able to bring back any LR, particularly if it is encrusted and life (dead coral is OK). Hard corals are controlled by CITES and, from my experience with talking to government folks about CITES, LR is automatically deemed to have corals and thus be subject to controls. Also, I thought that Hawaii had very strict regulations about collecting rock and similar things.
    Nick

  3. #3
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    i agree :b16:
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    As a former senior investigator with Customs, I can tell you that you will very likely have significant problems with US authorities for exporting the coral without docs, if they find it - and probably will, but if not, you'll loose it to the Canadian authorities for importing it without a CITES permit.

  5. #5
    Senior Member carrhd's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your opinions. What I am looking for is information from someone who has experience.

    I have no intention of illegally exporting from Hawaii or illegally importing into Canada. I have legally moved material from Florida to Canada with zero problem and doing all the requisite paperwork.

    If it is a relatively simple matter I'll jußt get permission, do the declarations, and proceed. If not, I've spent a week in Hawaii and have some amazing photos of my adventure.

    Hank
    220G mixed reef main, 30 G (3 x 10) brood/grow-out, 25 G secondary, 6 G frag with shared sump

    Return Pump: Iwaki MD55RLT
    Water Movement: Tunze Turbelle Stream 6060, 4 x MaxiJet 1200
    Lighting: 60" Outer Orbit dual 250 W 10k HQI and quad 48" T5HO Actinic
    Skimmer: Precision Marine Bullet-2 with Iwaki MD55RLT, WC610 waste collector, and gate valve

    Experience: Fresh since 1976 - Marine since 1987

    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/hank.carr

  6. #6
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    Depends what you mean by 'experience'. Nelson certainly has extensive work experience with importation to Canada. I spoke with the relevent Canadian CITES folks several times in connection with a plan to import cultured sponges from the US - they told me that any sponge on a pice of LR was covered under CITES. I don't have experience with doing the CITES paperwork but understand that it takes weeks (?months) and costs a fair chunk of money.

    Perhaps you could link up with someone like Aqua Valley or Ottawa Inverts who already are importing corals under CITES. If you were somehow an 'agent' for them, perhaps something might work out. There, I have no experience

    I'd take a week in Hawaii right now, even without brining back any coral, etc.
    Nick

  7. #7
    Senior Member carrhd's Avatar
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    Opinions and ideas are always welcome but offer little to nothing that will help me. There is a HUGE amount of misinformation and rumour in the aquarium hobby (evidence the complete shutdown of the Tonga export market rumour that circulates every few months.). By "experience" I mean someone who has actually done what I am asking about or who actually knows (not just thinks they know) the rules in Hawaii. I'm just going to call and ask tomorrow and will post the actual answer once I have it.

    Hank
    220G mixed reef main, 30 G (3 x 10) brood/grow-out, 25 G secondary, 6 G frag with shared sump

    Return Pump: Iwaki MD55RLT
    Water Movement: Tunze Turbelle Stream 6060, 4 x MaxiJet 1200
    Lighting: 60" Outer Orbit dual 250 W 10k HQI and quad 48" T5HO Actinic
    Skimmer: Precision Marine Bullet-2 with Iwaki MD55RLT, WC610 waste collector, and gate valve

    Experience: Fresh since 1976 - Marine since 1987

    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/hank.carr

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    That is an unfair characterization of the advice you have been given. I am giving you, not my 'opinion' but the formal decision provided to me by the CITES authorities in the Canadian government. Nelson has worked for the government in exactly this area. I know 'for a fact' that importing LR into Canada without CITEs permit is illegal and will, at a minimum, lead to the confiscation of the LR and a fine (and perhaps even jail time). Nelson can tell you similarly. Have some people smuggled LR into Canada - most likely 'yes'. Does that give them a more authoritative voice - NO. They were just stupid and lucky.

    Do I know the specific laws about collecting samples from Hawaii beaches for use in Hawaii - No, I don't. But that wasn't the question. You want to know if you can bring it back to Canada. For that purpose, Hawaii law is irrelevent while CITES is very relevent. Have a read of this web page. Note that he was arrested for violating US law and not having CITES permits, not for violating a state or provincial law.

    Here is another report of people who smuggled over 100 tons of Hawaii coral and LR to California and now face 5+ years in jail. And, that was transport within the US, not across an international border.

    And here is a thread from Reefs.org: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=109827. It is from 2007 and states explicitly (from people with 'experience') that collecting live rock is illegal although small amounts of rock rubble on the beach can be collected. They suggest talking to the Waikiki Aquarium to get up-to-date information.

    Do what you want but don't dismiss our advice and knowledge because it doesn't fit with what you want to do. I can't see how it is worth risking fines and jail time just to save a few bucks on some LR, especially when it will likely dry out en-route more than if you buy from a good local vendor.

    'enuff said. Your call.
    Nick

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    Nick

  10. #10
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    Talking

    hank, you can't bud. sorry. chances are it wouldn't be very ''LIVE'' when you got home. you'd have to have it sealed like a bugger so it wouldn't leak and that in itself would kill the rock.
    also, you'd look pretty crazy when they scan your baggage and they see rocks LOL.
    ALSO, I'm pretty sure you can have only 1 suitcase now and any extra baggage is $$$$$$$$$ not worth the hassle because they'll definatly inspect your baggage and you'll be delayed many times when they try to figure out what the rocks are.

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