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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Does Ich need to be treated?

    I've just recently noticed some of my fish have white spots. I have a 150g reef tank with lots of live rock, so catching each fish is next to impossible and a copper treatment is out due to inverts. My question is if the fish are eating, swimming, behaving properly and the only thing wrong is the white spots should I be trying an ich treatment? Obviously if they were acting strange, not eating, rapidly breathing I would have to try some treatment, but if they seem otherwise healthy do you attempt a treatment? I have been supplementing their nori with selcon and garlic guard, and am thinking of getting some more cleaner shrimp (I have 2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and am thinking about getting 2 Blood Red Fire Shrimp or 2 more of what I already have). Any thoughts as to which shrimp is better? Should I be trying a cleaner wrasse?

    Please help, I am new to this hobby (6 months) so any advice is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    liv
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    quick awnser for ya: Garlic
    make a batch of food for your fishies, add freshly pressed garlic juice and pulp with the food, let it sit together for a good 30min before serving.
    if you need some recipes, check out my recipies in the DIY section.

    Do this for now on, and it will lower ick by alot.
    Garlic is all around super good stuff.

    as for shrimps, you already have the cleaner shrimps, but not all fish visit the shrimps.
    cleaner wrasses do great jobs too.. and can chase the fish around too.. some fish will prefer the wrass.
    a combination of a cleaner wrass and enhancing your fishies immune system is your best bet

    moving.. so temporarily out of SW :b8:
    planning next tank, possibly 60x30x20 on 2x plasma.
    updated: 2011/05/30

  3. #3
    ijo
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    I don't think you need to treat ich. Keep water temp/parameters stable, keep your hands out of the tank, feed your fish high quality foods(garlic, omega 3 fatty acids), and do not add any new fish or corals to the tank until you have taken care of the problem.

    The above has been successfull 9 times out of 10 for me... let us know how things turn out for you.

    IJO

  4. #4
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    i'd be interested to read where you got this information for dosing with Garlic from...

  5. #5
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    http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

    the section on Garlic:

    "Garlic is another of the alternative treatments for Cryptocaryon to be touted lately. I have read of many people reporting using it "successfully" as a preventative. The difficult part in assessing these reports is whether the fish would have developed Cryptocaryon in the first place. And, when someone claims it to be a "cure," how can they definitively rule out natural, acquired immunity or even confusion over Cryptocaryon's life cycle.

    At the very least, garlic does have some proven anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-parasitic, and antiviral properties (Bartelme, 2003 and and Cortes-Jorge, 2001). I included it here because this treatment has shown enough promise to warrant further scientific evaluation. Unfortunately for us, all the real money in this industry is directed to commercial food fish, not our ornamentals. With other effective and inexpensive treatments available, I don't know if grant money will ever be directed into finding out if this alternative treatment conclusively works. Perhaps we could convince the fine marketing people at Mrs. Gordon's that they should try a pre-flavored version of their famous fish sticks by feeding the fish garlic. I can just hear the ad now, "A hint of garlic in every bite."

    My biggest problem with the use of garlic is the mythology that has developed regarding it. This all began quite simply and innocently. Kelly Jedlicki was studying the use of garlic as an intestinal dewormer. For those who don't know who Kelly is, she is affectionately referred to as the "Puffer Queen" as they are her favorite fishes and oftentimes are brought into the trade polluted with various worms. As I said, she was examining the effectiveness of garlic against nematodes and cestodes on impacted puffers when she noticed a general decrease in Cryptocaryon irritans incidence. Later on, she proposed feeding garlic to fish as a preventative for Cryptocaryon irritans. From there the legend of garlic has spread. Feeding garlic to fish is now an accepted cure for Marine Ich by some individuals. Furthermore, I have read of people merely hanging cloves of garlic in their tank in an effort to ward off the parasites, like some sort of bad vampire movie. And lastly, I have recently heard of a surprising number of hobbyists who soak their corals' food in garlic in an effort to combat possible pathogens when target feeding them. It goes to show that garlic has become an all-purpose wonder drug in some peoples' eyes based on little more than anecdotal observations."

    This is a great article on ich treatments... Not to say it doesn't work Liv, just another side of the coin, so to speak...

  6. #6
    liv
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    I was recommended this years ago, possibly here or rc.
    It has worked for me or ick just went away on its own.
    none the less, I believe garlic to be beneficial to their diet as well as mine

    moving.. so temporarily out of SW :b8:
    planning next tank, possibly 60x30x20 on 2x plasma.
    updated: 2011/05/30

  7. #7
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    I have to disagree. I think QT and Copper or Hypo is the only way to go. Why not bite the bullet now and rid the system of Ich forever? (assuming you QT all new fish) Ich is a time bomb. The next time your fish get stressed you may have a huge relapse. Or you add something like a Powder Blue and it gets Ich from your tank and dies... I haven't found cleaner shrimp do much of anything either. I have 2 cleaners and 1 blood shrimp and I've never seen a fish being cleaned much less cured of ich. Ich can be controlled with the help of garlic but maintaining that control long term is exhausting and expensive IMO.

  8. #8
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    Ah the ich holy war rears it's head again. We have all 3 out of 4 schools of thought listed, the only one missing is hypo salination treatment.

    I wrote a lot on the different theories here a couple years ago, but bottom line is that if you can break their lifecycle, you win. However you do that is up to you.

    Doing nothing requires that your fish are healthy enough to beat down the parasite on their own. It's possible but it's pretty passive for my tastes.

    Garlic as Liv mentioned, contains anicilin. It's a very mild, broad spectrum antibiotic. It *might* work by interrupting the life cycle, possibly at the free swiming stage, or possibly but boosting the fish's health long enough for it to fight off the parasite. The problem is there's very little of it in the water, and the fish doesn't injest much. It might only be increasing the fish's apetite. Maybe they perfer Italian food? Regardless many people have had luck with this technique too, although all evidence is somewhat subjective.

    Getting the fish out & into QT with either a copper or a hypo salanity treatement over a 4-6 weeks will cure the fish. The problem is that you have to treat all your fish, they're all hosts in the display tank. After 6 weeks, all of the ich is gone & you're in the clear.

    Copper has the problem that it'll kill your fish too if you're not careful. Tangs are sensitive too it & the copper can kill the fauna in their guts. This can end up with you curing the ich only to have the tang starve to later.

    Hyposalinity isn't fool proof either. You have to take your time getting down to the right levels and dropping is actually easier than getting back up to normal. Even with a refractometer you can blow it.

    There are also a whack of meds that claim to work in the tank, with varying results. Some claim to be reef safe and people have had mixed results with that too.

    Personally, when giving advice I tend to stick to textbook answers - QT and treat with either coper or hypo salinity. I've never had ich in my main tank though, so It's academic to me.

    Cheers!
    There is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure.

  9. #9
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    Actually i said copper or Hypo too

  10. #10
    Moderator Krugar's Avatar
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    Seems I can't read today... indeed you did.
    There is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure.

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