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  1. #1
    Senior Member BIGGUNSAR's Avatar
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    Here is a GREAT question for all you ammonia, nitrite, nitrate experts

    I recently bought a 90 gallon tank.
    I had a 40 gallon tank that was matured for about a year.
    I kept 25% of the rock in a rubber maid with a trickle filter to keep it live rock. After the rock was removed from the 40 gallon.

    Now here is the question.

    If I fill the new 90 gallon with NEW water, BUT (here is the BUT) But...I fill the tank with 20 gallons of old water from the 40 gallon (that came from teh rubber maid). WILL THAT cycle the new tank, and new tank water faster?

    Just curious. I would figure it would, since the beneficial bacteria still exsists in the new water, just dispersered and not as numerous.

    Am I right?
    90 gal tank
    200 gal power fussion skimmer

    1 firefish, 1 wrasse, 1 juvi yellow tang, 1 watchman gobi
    70 pounds free Live sand,200 pounds free Live rock
    1 power heads,

  2. #2
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGGUNSAR View Post
    Just curious. I would figure it would, since the beneficial bacteria still exsists in the new water, just dispersered and not as numerous.
    the beneficial bacteria is in the LR, i don't see any up side to using the old water and you will be adding any excess nutrients present to your new tank.
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


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  3. #3
    liv
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    Former Moderator liv's Avatar
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    I see it as it will kick in the cycle possibly much faster as as A4twenty mentionned you are adding old water filled with nutrients...etc.

    add your old LR and sand.. that will really kick it in production

    moving.. so temporarily out of SW :b8:
    planning next tank, possibly 60x30x20 on 2x plasma.
    updated: 2011/05/30

  4. #4
    Senior Member steve w.'s Avatar
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    Won't it be a greater shock to go with all new water?

    Doesn't a system need a certain amount of nutrients to keep the bacteria fed?
    100G Reef
    Purple,Blue,Yellow and Sailfin Tangs.Damsel,Clown and Coral Beauty,Fosters Hawkfish.
    Many mixed corals and clams.
    65G fuge in basement.
    Mag 24 return,RODI,2 Phosban reactors and UV.
    620w in DT.

  5. #5
    Senior Member BIGGUNSAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve w. View Post
    Won't it be a greater shock to go with all new water?

    Doesn't a system need a certain amount of nutrients to keep the bacteria fed?
    Well, a good question I think.

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    90 gal tank
    200 gal power fussion skimmer

    1 firefish, 1 wrasse, 1 juvi yellow tang, 1 watchman gobi
    70 pounds free Live sand,200 pounds free Live rock
    1 power heads,

  6. #6
    Senior Member steve w.'s Avatar
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    I've always thought of the water as being alive.

    If your going from a 40 to a 90 gallon(saving as much water as you can)your still going to do a 60% water change.
    100G Reef
    Purple,Blue,Yellow and Sailfin Tangs.Damsel,Clown and Coral Beauty,Fosters Hawkfish.
    Many mixed corals and clams.
    65G fuge in basement.
    Mag 24 return,RODI,2 Phosban reactors and UV.
    620w in DT.

  7. #7
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    i think you may have missed the post where he explains about losing all of his fish in the rubbermaid container that his LR and the water in question are currently in.

    that and he only saved 1/4 of the LR from his 40G tank, he is going to have to go down to the ocean ( lucky bugger ) and grab another 100+ lbs. depending on how he does this there could be some die off and / or an addition of good bacteria.

    to me it seems like he is really starting over and there is no point adding whatever killed his fish ( and the by products of the fish dying: nitrates, phosphates, etc... ) to the new tank.

    if it was me i would use the water the rock is in now to clean the rock, then give them a good shake off in some NSW ( even a super saline solution, especially for the new LR to get rid of any unwanted hitch hikers ) then in the DT.
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


    My Gallery

  8. #8
    Senior Member BIGGUNSAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a4twenty View Post
    i think you may have missed the post where he explains about losing all of his fish in the rubbermaid container that his LR and the water in question are currently in.

    that and he only saved 1/4 of the LR from his 40G tank, he is going to have to go down to the ocean ( lucky bugger ) and grab another 100+ lbs. depending on how he does this there could be some die off and / or an addition of good bacteria.

    to me it seems like he is really starting over and there is no point adding whatever killed his fish ( and the by products of the fish dying: nitrates, phosphates, etc... ) to the new tank.

    if it was me i would use the water the rock is in now to clean the rock, then give them a good shake off in some NSW ( even a super saline solution, especially for the new LR to get rid of any unwanted hitch hikers ) then in the DT.

    Well yes your right, that is EXACTLy my sunny day plan today. I am going snorkeling and going to pick up a truck load of old conks (thing with conks, i think they are better than LR) due to the fact that they have all the old coraline growth and other stuff, PLUS they make a natural hiding place for your fish. they have WAY MORE surface area for the bacteria to cling to (because of the spiral design of thier old former owners).
    And it's not illegal to grab old conks from the sea, in the cayman islands.

    Plus the older the conk, the more porous the shell is (think of a peice of cheese, except the pores are MUCH smaller and more numerous. Like thousands of pin pricks in the hard surface.)

    The old conks also carry emerald crabs and hermit crabs all for free 8)

    I have enough base rock (which is legal to grab) but i dont' have any "caribbean" coral. Just conks. Becuase the coral will land you in jail.

    But my tank looks good. Once i fill it with more conks, it will be 100% nicer.
    I checked params today and they are all at 0 except nitrates which are at .5 (with feeding 3 times a day), I have one maroon clown fish, BIG sucker. One juvi naso tang and one blenny. I will add one more fish to be complete (think jewel damsel)

    If I am here after two more years I am going for a 200 gal sucker as an upgrade.

    Anyways..off to snorkel. Later guys LOL..suckers....LOL joking.

    PS. I figured out my sump. Havent done it yet, only the drilling of one device. I took my old trickel filter, and drilled a hole it in. Mid way. I will place a hose in it, that will drain into my sump underneath.
    I will then take a purifilter and put the intake end in my sump, and the return end into my tank.
    VOILA, no way to overflow the tank, or sump, cause the trickel filters intake nossle can be brought up CLOSE to the surface. So if the water goes down too far it stops taking in water.
    I place the intake of the purifilter (canned filter) only so far below the sump water line, so if that gets too low, it stops intake of the purifilter (another safety measure). Then the return goes into the tank.

    Voila, super safe, super easy sump with little to no equipment needed and NO drilling LOL.
    90 gal tank
    200 gal power fussion skimmer

    1 firefish, 1 wrasse, 1 juvi yellow tang, 1 watchman gobi
    70 pounds free Live sand,200 pounds free Live rock
    1 power heads,

  9. #9
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    conk shells are no substitute for liverock. 2 totally different things.
    liverock being porous has way more total area for bacteria plus other little creatures like dusters and peanut worms sponges etc...

    conk shells also tend to have gunk build up inside them.

    conk shells also do not buffer your water with calcium.

    they look cool and are decorations but for filtration liverock is a million times better. hope that helps.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BIGGUNSAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john rock View Post
    conk shells are no substitute for liverock. 2 totally different things.
    liverock being porous has way more total area for bacteria plus other little creatures like dusters and peanut worms sponges etc...

    conk shells also tend to have gunk build up inside them.

    conk shells also do not buffer your water with calcium.

    they look cool and are decorations but for filtration liverock is a million times better. hope that helps.
    I just need to ask you two questions. Have you ever seen a conk that has been aged in the ocean? I am just curious.

    Becuase the conks I find, have duster fans, and sponges and everything on them. The same exact stuff that is found as growth on rocks. The EXACT same. Infact, if you don't know what to look for, you would mistake those old conks for rocks.
    And as for gunk. ????
    the only gunk I have found in old conks are animals. Live animals.

    So that makes me want to ask the next obvious question.
    In your opinion, why is the surface of a conk shell, less suitable to host the bacteria that does the ANN conversion than a rock. Just curious about your opinion. As I stated, a conk shell can be way more porus than a rock. And it definetly has more surface area. It spirals into a core. If you were to flatten a large conk out, it would span more than 6 feet. (think why bio balls work, here john).
    Do you think that flattening out a rock, (ie, measure surface area) that it would span out as much as a conk. We will be fair and say a 8 inch by 6 inch by 6 inch rock. vs same dimensions as a conk.

    I am getting kind of old, but do I see a duster fan on this conk? Do you? Im not sure, maybe I should look again.
    Oh..and looky, an anemone. And coraline and grassy leafy stuff.


    Click on the picture to get a better looksy john.
    But I will await your answer.
    90 gal tank
    200 gal power fussion skimmer

    1 firefish, 1 wrasse, 1 juvi yellow tang, 1 watchman gobi
    70 pounds free Live sand,200 pounds free Live rock
    1 power heads,

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