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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Nov 2006
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    Can it not stop?

    I have a problem ,a mojor problem a silent killer in my tank I dont know what it is or when it comes out but both my fish are dead and theres no sign of them I need sone help or ideas?

    My cyrrent idea is to clean out the tank ( live rock drain it the whole bit.)
    but i dont know where to put the urhin, shrimp and live rock.

    Im also not sure i should stick my hand in to a unknown fish killer.

    and help is apreciated thx

  2. #2
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    can you start with a bit of info about your system and complete list of the livestock you know about.
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


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  3. #3
    Junior Member
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    Nov 2006
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    here you go

    Ok lets go

    Filter : Sponge with phosphate remover
    Protienskimmer: need a new one any recommendations?
    Lights: A day light and blue light blue goes from 7 am to 10 pm and day goes from 8am to 9pm
    Pumps: 3 maxijet 1200s
    Heater : none

    Live stock:
    Long spine urchin ( quite big)
    Cleaner shrimp ( quite large)
    2 small clown fish ( the victims)
    1 unknown killer.



    BTW for additional info its not a virus unless you know one that Leaves no body and has no symptms.

    Time line:
    Dec 26th First fish dissapears. I was only there in the morning so i thought he was hiding.
    Dec 26th Leave for utah
    Dec 26th - Jan 3rd in utah with person feeding fish
    Jan 3rd return home to have second fish missing. still no Bones/Body from either.

    :b1:

  4. #4
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    do you have a canopy on the tank? have you looked for jumpers??

    other than the cleaner shrimp any clean up crew?? they can make pretty short work of a dead fish, especially if you've been away for a while.

    how old is the system??

    do you every hear any clicking or find empty shattered shells?

    you don't run a heater?? what temp. is the tank?? what type of temperature swings would you have between night and day?? did you turn the thermostat down when you went away?
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


    My Gallery

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Sep 2003
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    1,427
    How big is the tank? How long has it been running? What are you current water parameters (pH, salinity, nitrites/nitrates/ammonia? How much live rock do you have, what type is it (Pascific vs Carribean)?

    I'm not sure that removing everything from your tank is going to be helpful. It might just cause more problems.

    Clown fish can be good jumpers. I lost two from my first tank (20G) even though I had a canopy with only a narrow opening on the back of the tank.
    Nick

  6. #6
    Junior Member
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    sorry

    I gess that wasnt a complete list.

    ok
    cleaner crew is
    1 giant vietnemese snail
    5 star snails
    10-12 turbos
    10 small blue leg crabs
    1 cleaner shrimp.

    It is a carribian tank
    The temp is always in the green on the themomerter. I sometimes have problems its to hot. I think this is beause the light is too closeto the tank but the case wont let it go any higher.
    No jumper I have checked sinse they were wild clown fish. But the only place they could go in smack into the light or though one of the openings into the sides of the case.
    No clicking noises or cracked shells.
    The 10-12 turbos is because of the crabs catching the occasional snail.
    The heat was down but if they died fromthat ( highly unlikley since weve been away for longer then that and no heat problems ) the first wouldn't have been gone before we turned the heat down.

    The problems with the cleaner crew eating the dead one are:
    a) There was no bones
    b) The first one died whne I was home.
    c) Nothing in my tank is big enough to eat a full fish in a day.

    BTW: I saw a really samll brittle star on my wall a few weeks ago and a smaller one last night. Ive heard stories of a brittle star killing fish.

    It happened to a friend he was losing fish fast until one day he saw a arm COME OUT OF THE SAND AND SNATCH A WELL SIZED YELLOW TANG OUT OF MID SWIM and snap it down to the sand. I he hadn't been right there it would have died.

    My tank is 55 gallons
    Also i put my hand in the tank yesterdy to get algae and nothing took it thank god

  7. #7
    Junior Member
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    The tank is 2 years at my place but was being run at the brittle star guys for awhile before I got it. My guess is five years.

    Im finding a preditor hard to find bcause I havent brougt in any rock since the first day and that was in the tank before i got it so unless it came on a fish I don't know how a hitch hiker got in.

    All stats are in the norm for ph ammoina etc.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    I had something similar happen to me - a fish just disappeared on day. Never found the fish nor any bones, etc. Never found a predator either. The cleaning crew can be very efficient. And it is amazing what small cracks fish can find to jump through. I really doubt that a small brittle star could kill a clown fish. I don't know what your friend saw but it sounds really weird. I;ve heard of ambush fish (e.g. lion fish, anglers) attacking like that but your fried would have known if he had added something like that to the tank.

    Clown fish aren't native to the Carribean so might not 'fit' a Carribean themed tank. But, that doesn't likely explain their loss.

    I'd not worry about a hidden predator. Make sure the parameters, etc. are OK. If you want, buy a green chromis as a 'test' fish before re-stocking.
    Nick

  9. #9
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
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    that was probably a green brittle star, they are nasty predators. but i'm with nick, don't underestimate those crabs. combined with the worms and the cleaner a carcass can disappear pretty fast and if it get dragged behind the rock you may never see it.

    with no fish in there for a while now maybe you could lay a trap with some meat and sit back and watch what comes out.

    also i would get a heater, that has to be stressful on the fish.
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


    My Gallery

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    460
    I had a 5' palolo worm hiding out in my rockwork for several years before I got him. IN that time he took out at least 4 fish. So removing the rockwork may not provide any clues, as they can hide in the craziest little holes. You can though take the rock put it in a tub with salt water and drop a couple of alka seltzers in. WOW when you see how much comes screaming out of your rockwork. Thats how I caught mine. But I knew which rock he was in. KIlling all the denizens of your reef may not be in your best interest.
    Likely they died and were scavenged. 10 crabs can rip through a good sized tang in short order. Especially if they haven't eaten in a couple of days.
    I have also had a green serpent star and although they are voracious hunters, they ambush at night when fish are somewhat sluggish and slower. They would be hard pressed to ambush a fish in the middle of the day. And are by no means able to snatch a fish from below the surface of your sand bed, unless that said fish stopped for a nap
    Close attention to the tank after dark with a flashlight could yeild some interesting options.
    Good luck
    Jason

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