Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: The economy

  1. #1
    Senior Member kermit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    111
    May not mean nothing to you right now but may make a difference to your neighbors friends...but ever thought about buying north american cars and keep those poeple jobs nice to buy foreign cars but think of how many jobs that north american companies employ....that is just my thought and my own opinion good luck with the car hunting....

  2. #2
    Moderator Krugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,174
    So I split this out of my car conversation because I wanted to explore it a bit. Perhaps I'm a sucker for punishment, but having finished my MBA reciently, I typically enjoy these types of conversations...

    Buy made in Canada in general, is extremely misleading. To have a "Made in Canada" label, a company only has to add value to the product in Canada. The laws on this are changing after the lead paint in toys, poisonous pet food, and other goodies to come out of China.

    Still, let's use fish as an example. It's cheaper for companies on the east coast, to import fish from China, add a sauce place it in a container and slap the "made in Canada" label on it than it is to buy the fish from local fishermen.

    Crushed / minced garlic typically also comes from Asia. The value add was bottling it here. The bottle itself also likely came from overseas.

    Electronic components, even in cars *might* be assembled here, but are manufactured primarily overseas.

    All that was my first point - it's really hard to find something that's truely made in Canada and will support my friends and family if I should choose to buy it.

    The next point is value. NA cars just aren't providing this, and haven't for years. My last 3 cars have been GM, but this was because of leasing deals I could get and that balanced out the value problems. GM financing was actually the only profitable portion of the company not too long ago. So what happened? They sold it. Oldsmobile was pretty popular in North America, but Buick has prestige in China. We all know which one they kept.

    How does rewarding bad behaviour with my cash ulimately help my friends and family? Did you know that one of the big three once said "Customers don't know what they want so we'll tell them."

    The only way to truely improve the NA auto industry is to let them know how displeased I am with their non-existant service, their poor quality control, the lack of value in their automobiles, and the complete lack of foresight their executive have. The only way for me to do this is to vote with my dollars and spend them someplace where I do get the product and service I'm interested in.

    The companies I don't shop at have two basic decisions to make: we can live without this business, or we have to change to get that business back.

    I'm hoping on the latter. I'd love to see a NA car that could seriously hold a candle to a Nissan, Infiniti, Honda, Acura, or the Subaru I'm most likely going to buy next. Even Hyundia puts way more car per dollar into their offerings than Detroit does.

    So my final point on this is there's one more thing to consider on this. Buying the car is only roughly half of it's economic value. The real margins come from maintaining the car over it's life time. I live in Canada and I will be fueling, repairing, and maintaining my car here. All of that will benefit my friends & family, but only those that can provide value for my hard earned cash.

    Cheers!
    There is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure.

  3. #3
    liv
    liv is offline
    Former Moderator liv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,646
    my opinion: Of course i'd love to help out Canadians or American by buying their cars.. but every single one I've had were lemons. So until they make them as reliable as Japanese cars it wont happen for me.

    more and more Japanese cars are actually built in the states.. my xterra was built in a plant in Utah, and my corolla somewhere in the states. also, the new honda civics are built in Toronto.

    On a side note, I recently purchased a baby bed and desk, crib etc.. ( little girl coming up in 4months ). Its a Canadian company that makes the furnature. They design it here, get local wood ( oak, maple etc ) then ship that local wood to china, it is then transformed into a desk etc and then shipped back here, the company now stains it here ( Toronto ) and ships it out. Its actually cheaper for them to get things shipped twice then doing it locally.. insane..

    also, heard that story about GM closing a plant in the states cauz their employes didn't want a pay cut.. from 65$/h to 45$/h and everyone would have kept their jobs..they voted no, and now the plant will close.. I say greedy !!! 45$ us!!! I wish I made 1/2 that!

    moving.. so temporarily out of SW :b8:
    planning next tank, possibly 60x30x20 on 2x plasma.
    updated: 2011/05/30

  4. #4
    Former Moderator a4twenty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,819
    this is going to be a touchy subject but i have to agree with the above.

    i see no reason to support mis-managed and greedy companies that try to keep costs down buy building cheap products.

    with the new president coming into office toady and his call to repatriate jobs and talks about his plans to make changes to the free trade deal, who knows where all those jobs are going anyway?????? lets get serious, if there are plants to be closed they're going to start in Canada and Mexico not the US. unless we can make it worth their while............ $$$$$$ why help them and not the other foreign car manufacturers.

    Quote Originally Posted by liv View Post
    more and more Japanese cars are actually built in the states.. my xterra was built in a plant in Utah, and my corolla somewhere in the states. also, the new honda civics are built in Toronto.
    built in the US and Canada, lets not forget the big 3 are not Canadian companies, so why should we support them over the imports that are building plants here too.

    if you believe them ( at least the 2 ) they were a week away from having to close their doors. but now with the first ( don't even think this is the end ) billions flowing they can lay everyone off for a few weeks to a month ( yes, dumping them on EI ) while they figure out what to do. now seriously if sales are down and no signs of a quick recovery for the economy how can they continue to build vehicles and keep everyone employed??? well thats where the next bailout will begin!!

    the notion that this would be the end of the auto industry in NA is silly, they would just have to restructure and renegotiate their contacts ( the best thing that could happen ). yes there would be job losses but believe me there are still going to be no matter how much $$$ we throw at it. i would rather see our money go to the auto makers that are making good quality vehicles and smart choices.

    sorry for the rant :b15:
    `

    120S RR tank with 60G basement sump / fuge

    Return Pump: Little Giant 4-MDQX SC
    Water Movement: MP40W, Seio 1500, (2) Hydor K4's
    Lighting: 400W SE MH with 10K Venture
    Skimmer: Euro-Reef RS250 with gate valve
    Other: RODI, RDSB, PO4/AC reactor


    My Gallery

  5. #5
    Moderator Krugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,174
    Careful, $45 / hour is roughly $90K. In CDN that's $112K, half would be $56K. If you're making less than that at your current job, send me your CV

    Cheers!
    There is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    116
    My 2 cents... my next car will be supporting the Canadian economy. It will be either a Toyota Corolla, or Rav4... both of which are made here in Ontario. Toyota does much of it's R&D in Canada, some parts (though not all) are Canadian made, and it's testing facility is here in Ontario. So while I will not again be purchasing a NA vehicle, I will be purchasing from a company that does pump $$ back into the Canadian economy.
    58 gallon display, 20 gallon sump, Octopus Recirc 110, Mag9 return. Nova Extreme lighting.
    55lbs live rock.
    Yellow Tang, 2 Clowns, Kupang Damsel, Yellow Watchmen.


    24 gallon AquaPod, 24lbs live rock.
    Valentini Toby, Coral Beauty, various snails, hermits.


    12 gallon AquaPod, 12lbs live rock, lots of mushrooms.

  7. #7
    Moderator Krugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,174
    That's an interesting short term solution. The problem is that the pacific rim is clobbering NA with their ability to inexpensively manufacture almost everything.

    Take China for example. Yes I know there's been issues there reciently with safety and quality, but did you know the average salary in China is less than $2,100 annually?

    The autoworker's example above - at $65 / hour that's less than a week's pay in NA. The most expensive part of operations is the labour. How do you compete against somebody that has 2% of your labour costs?

    Will you still buy a Canadian assembled car if a reasonable equivlent can be found for 1/50th of the price?

    Fortunately it's not that bad, autoworkers in China make considerably more than the national average salary. But they still make considerably less than anyone in Canada gets for assembly line work.

    Yes it costs a lot of cash to ship a car over to NA from that side of the world, but logistics are always becoming more efficent. What happens when this isn't as much of a barrier?

    The government can always impose import tarrifs - but China will respond with it's own duties. So you risk "saving" the auto industry at the expense of, perhap oil or other natural resources we sell to China. Will the jobs lost in those industries be more or less important than the ones we might loose from car manufacturing?

    Anyway food for thought - like I said I like these debates

    Cheers!
    There is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure.

  8. #8
    Member Slyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    79
    I support NA cars but I'm totally in disaccord with their salary, most of them don't even have a high school diploma. Also, only the NA makers pay 65$ or 71$, where has the Japanese makers pay 49$, that's still alot of money but if you count all the employees GM, Ford and Chrysler have in North America and take it down by that salary difference, for 1 hour that's alot of millions of $$.

    So they should take a pay cut keep their jobs and go on with their lives and let the makers get more quality instead of mass producing just to cover those salaries.
    Tank: 125 Gallons with Coast to Coast overflow
    Sump/Refuge: 55Gallons
    Lighting: 400W MH x3
    Pumps: Seio 1100 and 820, Koralia 4, Tunze Nanostream 6025 moded
    Return: Ocean Runner 3500
    Skimmer: Octopus HoB double pump skimmer
    (Octopus Pro 300)

    IN PROGRESS
    GHL Standalone dosing pump

    Live stock : Velvet wrasse, clown wrasse, niger trigger, 2 blood shrimps, 2 purple firefish

  9. #9
    Senior Member kermit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    111
    Well i see i open a can of worms here everyone has their own reason logic what ever you want to call it for buying what you want to buy that is your business and families....I can go on and on about why not support foreign cars but i will not...

    I would love to see some American make 65 per hour your information is totally wrong on that one but again i will not get into this long argument and on going issues with everything....

    Liv congradulation on the newborn comming soon the best to you and your family with the new addition....

    Emahoney great you are supporting your follow canadians cause those cars are assemble here in Canada and some parts are made here in canada for those cars no where did i say buy from one of the Big 3 automakers all i said was try to buy something made or i should of said assemble here in canada cause they are not to many parts anymore made in Canada i agree there....

    Krugar the labour cost to build a car in canada is 7% or the price so we not much more then china....foreign cars for some reason or the newpaper for some reason never tell the publice about all the recalls they are having cause they spend to much money on advertising in the paper so nothing is mention about the recalls...Also i like your last comment "Anyway food for thought - like I said I like these debates " that is what this is everyone has their own opinion about why and why not but look around and see how many job lost we have ....is it fair that we can only ship 100 cars to china and they can import 2000 here that is our goverment for you we have to get on their ass and stop this kind of stuff from happening....

    Didn't want to insult or step on anyone's toes here it was just a comment if i did i'm sorry if i offended anyone.....again good luck with your new car hunting and i hope you enjoy what ever you buy

  10. #10
    Senior Member kermit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    111
    Where did you get you info on the wages they don't make that much...and its not the autoworkers wages that adds to the price its the CEO and all the executive they are the one that should be taking a cut in pay...

    A few years ago GM posted a lost of 1 billion dollors or so then they turn around and give Rick Wagner or is it smith anyways one of those guys a 3 million dollar bonus how can they do that with such a huge lost...again nothing to do with the autoworkers wages that i can see.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Slyman View Post
    I support NA cars but I'm totally in disaccord with their salary, most of them don't even have a high school diploma. Also, only the NA makers pay 65$ or 71$, where has the Japanese makers pay 49$, that's still alot of money but if you count all the employees GM, Ford and Chrysler have in North America and take it down by that salary difference, for 1 hour that's alot of millions of $$.

    So they should take a pay cut keep their jobs and go on with their lives and let the makers get more quality instead of mass producing just to cover those salaries.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Reefs, Prices, Economy
    By samw in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-10-2005, 04:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •