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  1. #1
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    Plumbing time Question

    OK I am ready to start the plumping on my 225 gallon tank. I have a few questions about flow rates. I have the Dart at 3600 GPH if head is 0 feet and the T4 at 1200 GPH if head is 0 feet. Now both pumps will in fact have no real head because when the tank and sump are full the pumps and all piping will be full of water. So all I am dealing with is pipe friction and I really don't know how much flow rate I will loose in pipe friction including the elbows. I also have plans for the ocean Motion 4 way wave maker on the Darts return which even if submersed must effect the flow rate. If I am looking for 10 X turnover in my sump should I not be using the dart to return water from the sump by way for the wave maker as compared to a "true" closed loop? Being that all the supply lines are full of water all the time is that not pretty much a closed loop anyway ... even if the sump is involved? If I use the dart as a true close loop I will only have my T4 to do sump supply which will be perhaps 1000 GPH net output which is only around 5 x turnover. Is 5 times and hour turnover in the sump enough?
    Any input is welcome.
    Rob

  2. #2
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    OSD, any vertical distance on your returns is consider head pressure.
    closed loop only has pipe and joint friction loss which is minimal.
    your DART would be perfect for a closed loop with your 4 way.
    returns used to be rated at around 10x but I find slower flow thru the sump equals less chance of micro bubbles to make it back plus if you run a refugium and cryptic zone in your sump its better with slow flow. the T4 might cut it as a sump return but go a 1/4 size up in pipe size than what the outlet/inlets are

  3. #3
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    Is vertical distance considered head even when the vertical distance is also always submersed? My Refuge will be run on my MAG 9.5. Thats the plan anyway.
    OSD

  4. #4
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    Cool

    not sure I get you? always submerged? If your pump is below the tank its considered head no matter what.

  5. #5
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    OK thats what I was getting at but I read somewhere that true head is the distance from the output of the pump to the output pipes exit point that is "above" the water line? All my pump piping is below the water line. That's because my sump is beside my tank not under it so water will flow through the pump and all the way to the exit points even if the pump is not running.
    Rob

  6. #6
    Senior Member reefmutt's Avatar
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    Your head pressure should be measured by the height of the output which is above the water line of the vessel supplying water to the pump...does that make sense? I think that is what you think too, Rob. I'd use the Dart for the closed loop. You really don't need so much turnover through the sump- what's in the sump?
    Matt.

    Old system torn down to make a playroom.. planning a 62x42x28 high

  7. #7
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    the sump (24x 24x 24) will house the , skimmer, heater, probes, pump to refuge, water level float. The usual stuff.
    getting back to head pressure. The supply vessel is at the same height as the tank both water lines are equal give or take an inch.
    Rob

  8. #8
    Moderator cres's Avatar
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    If the water levels in the two tanks, main and sump are the same or nearly the same, and your returns are submerged, you should have no head and you should deal only with friction losses.

    It doesn't really matter if your plumbing is submerged or not.

    If your pump was outside the tank and the plumbing ran to top of your roof and back down to the display tank, there would be no head, per se as long as the two water levels are the same. You would have significant friction, however. The downward section of the plumbing is under a vacuum which offsets the head of the upward section.

    Now, I suspect that if you are pumping from the sump and letting gravity return, you will actually see the water in the sump lower than the main tank. Perhaps only an inch or two, but, lower. Water does have to "run downhill" afterall.

    And having said all that, I believe you are really asking if five times the main tank volume turned over per hour in the sump is sufficient. I believe the current thinking is that less than 10 times is in fact acceptable through the sump. You might consider using the smaller pump for the sump and the bigger for the closed loop. Putting 4800(minus friction) GPH through a 50 gal sump might be a bit much.
    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

  9. #9
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    NO actually the water will be going pretty much sideways from the tank to the sump ... then down out the bottom of the sump to the pump and up to the tank but not higher then the water line.
    Rob

  10. #10
    Senior Member reefmutt's Avatar
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    we're still talkin' 0 head
    Matt.

    Old system torn down to make a playroom.. planning a 62x42x28 high

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