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  1. #1
    Senior Member steve666's Avatar
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    Angry Ripping down tank

    I would like to apologize for boring you with another thread on hair algae, but alas i am at my wits end.

    Tank specs:-

    90g main tank with 65g sump (eight foot head between the top of the two tanks, sump is in the basement)

    1 m/h 250W DE HQI pendant centre with 260W pc half actinic half 10K.

    sump lighting 2 20w n/o(16hrs) and 1 75 spot (as melevs)(24hrs)

    I drip calc in top up water

    skimmer - vs3-24 with a rio 3100 pump Lifereef setup two days ago (used) before i was running a prism pro.

    150lbs live rock (50 was base now 1yr in tank)

    2" s/b in main tank with 6" upside down s/b in sump(1/2 of tank) see drawing this is not fed as per drawing but fed with an empty cannister filter the overflow emptys into the skimmer compartment.

    The 90g was set up from my old 65g.

    return incorporates a spray bar full width of tank on the opposite side to the overlow and fed with a Mag 24 at 3/4 closed
    Livestock

    blue tang
    2 percs
    1 lawnmower blennie
    2 green chromis
    6 hermits
    10 turbos
    2 astreas

    Corals
    2 brains 1red 1 green
    christmas rock
    candycane
    Xenia
    pipe organ (slowly strangled by ha despite my efforts of picking it off)

    Water parameters to follow

    Sal 1025
    ph 8.6-8.4
    Temp 81-83
    Water parameters

    Hagen

    Po4 0-0.25mg/l
    CA 340
    No3 0-0.5mg/l
    No2 0
    NH3 0.1mg/l

    Salifert
    KH 7
    Alk 2.51
    I have been fighting hair algae for at least 6 mnths, the tank was ste up from a 65g and b4 that a 45g. The 90g has been setup for about 9mnths.
    I just cannot see what can be feeding it. I feed the tank very very little every other day with a 1/4 cube frozen mysis (washed of course). My fish hate me for it. This sort of stops the ha from increasing but if i feed more regularly and with cyclopeese (freeze dried ) the next day it has increased.
    In the past 3 mnths i have done 30g water changes bi-weekly each time i harvest the ha at the same time. (you would not believe how much i have pulled out of the tank) By the end of the first week after w/c its back (slightly less each time)
    The most frustrating part is that if i put a rock with ha on it into the sump/refug the ha disappears after 3-4 days.

    I have a very small bio-load and i feed the tank well below what i should be its so annoying.

    I have been feeding DT's Plankton at 1/2 recom. amount every other day but i cant see how this would encourage ha.

    The skimmers have been pulling some skimate out of the tank but only very small amnts, i dont think there is much waste in the sytem to dispose of. I have even stopped feeding completely for a week but as soon as i start again the ha increases.

    I have cheato in the refuge (about 1 week) b4 i had caulerpa but it disappeared.

    I am at a loss, any help advice, previous threads etc will be very greatly appreciated.

    I cannot post a pic of my sump design for some reason
    but this link will take you to one (bottom of page 2) Thank you for your time and patience

    steve
    sorry here is the link

    http://aquariacanada.com/forums/sho...ght=sump+design
    We need more Indians!

  2. #2
    Senior Member steve666's Avatar
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    anyway i posted this a couple of weeks ago on rc, i have since decided to rip the tank down and start again without sand beds.
    There isn't that much hair algae in the tank but as soon as i feed the tank, boom it doubles in size.

    so i have a couple of questions

    Does anyone no where i can buy starboard (HDPE) in Canada?
    I am thinking of using a Reef Flo Dart (3500 GPH) for the closed loop, do these pumps run quietly (it needs to be dead quiet as it willl be under the tank)? or any other suggestions (same flow)

    Thanks
    We need more Indians!

  3. #3
    Senior Member ReefSalt's Avatar
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    Hi Steve666,
    The Reef flo Dart pumps are great and there quiet silent I use it on a closed loop and it works well so I would stick with that.

    I have heard some people who feed DT`s and doesnt have enough phyto loving livestock and a good amount of liverock,run into this problem of hair algea,what is the date on the bottle ?do you shake it every day to keep the phyto in suspension?

    I have a SSb of 1-1 1/2" just for looks.

    good luck.
    HTH

    ReefSalt

    Before you buy anything......Read and Research .
    _________________________

    Setup:
    265 gl SPS Reef. AquaScape Marco Rock 150lbs ( Upgrading to a 300gl Deep Dimension)
    Ecotech Radion Pro x 4 & Ecotech ReefLink
    Decante 75g
    Pompe de Remonte PCX55
    Reef Octopus SRO-5000SSS
    Reacteur Sulphur H&S Pour Nitrate
    2x Phosban 550

    Frag Tank:
    Perfect0 45 cube sur le system central
    Totoka LR 50lb
    Radion Gen2
    Vortech MP10W

  4. #4
    Senior Member steve666's Avatar
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    Thanx reefsalt, i dont think its the phyto, i havent used it for two mnths now and still no change, and i used it all the time in my old 65g with no hair algae in sight. I think its the sandbed in the main tank, who knows ive tried everything bare bottom it is!!!!
    We need more Indians!

  5. #5
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    Have you tried using a product from aquamarine called Aquarium clean. I have used it and it worked for me. It's worth a shoot.

    The starboard is nothing more than just cutting board. You could find it where they sell restaurant equipement.

  6. #6
    Senior Member steve666's Avatar
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    Thanx joseph i dont really want to add chemicals to the tank to clean it, The problem will only come back eventually i would sooner find the cause.
    Ill try the restaurant suppliers tommorrow
    We need more Indians!

  7. #7
    Senior Member reefsurfer's Avatar
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    What water are you using for water changes and top off? I suspect the water your using contains something that feeds the algea.

    What is your photoperiod MH and others? Drasticaly reducing MH photoperiod could help you reduce algea. Sometimes if your tank is close to a window you need to consider THAT light (Which im sure youve heard isnt great for tanks) in your photoperiod.

    I think keeping CA levels just a bit higher would promote coraline algea growth and reduce other algea IMO ( not too sure on that one but id say its worth a try.

    Your temp is a bit on the high side. Is the temp in your basement a bit cooler. Not sure this has a direct effect on the growth of hair algea but... What could be eating it while its in your sump?

    Your clean up crew is on the slim side for a 90. Beaf it up dude.

    I dont know how good your current skimmer is but your old one was deffinatly too small (not very good) for your set up. Worth looking into.

    Macros in your sump is a very good idea give that a few weeks before you go do something drastic. How did the caulerpa disapear?? What ever is cleaning up your sump is doing a better job then whats cleaning your display. Maybe you should just set up your living room in your basement and put all your corals in your sump

    Upsidedown sand bed, hmmmmmmmm, i dont know about that one:ummm:

    Do you have any biomedia somewhere in your set up, like bioballs or porcelain pellets??? You could have a nitrate factory somewhere, maybe thats what the upsidedown sand bed thingy is.

    HTH
    PLEASE SEND ALL ACROPORA FRAGS TO THE REEFSURFER

  8. #8
    Senior Member steve666's Avatar
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    Originally posted by reefsurfer
    What water are you using for water changes and top off? I suspect the water your using contains something that feeds the algea.

    I have only ever used ro/di.

    What is your photoperiod MH and others? Drasticaly reducing MH photoperiod could help you reduce algea. Sometimes if your tank is close to a window you need to consider THAT light (Which im sure youve heard isnt great for tanks) in your photoperiod.

    Actinics 6hrs, daylight 6 m/h 4hrs i have already tried reducing the lighting period

    I think keeping CA levels just a bit higher would promote coraline algea growth and reduce other algea IMO ( not too sure on that one but id say its worth a try.

    I constantly drip kalk and have very good corralline growth

    Your temp is a bit on the high side. Is the temp in your basement a bit cooler. Not sure this has a direct effect on the growth of hair algea but... What could be eating it while its in your sump?

    I think the sump is nutrient free, there is n othing in there to eat it.

    Your clean up crew is on the slim side for a 90. Beaf it up dude.

    Maybe but everything you add to the tank adds more waste/phophates.

    I dont know how good your current skimmer is but your old one was deffinatly too small (not very good) for your set up. Worth looking into.

    Agreed but the new skimmer is taking out no more skimmate than the prism even set wet.

    Macros in your sump is a very good idea give that a few weeks before you go do something drastic. How did the caulerpa disapear?? What ever is cleaning up your sump is doing a better job then whats cleaning your display. Maybe you should just set up your living room in your basement and put all your corals in your sump

    LOL i thought about that.

    Upsidedown sand bed, hmmmmmmmm, i dont know about that one:ummm:

    the UPSB is just a plenum with water going through it.

    Do you have any biomedia somewhere in your set up, like bioballs or porcelain pellets??? You could have a nitrate factory somewhere, maybe thats what the upsidedown sand bed thingy is.

    No,

    HTH
    I have already decided to take out the sandbeds, move the tank, make a new stand etc etc.

    Thanks for the help
    We need more Indians!

  9. #9
    Senior Member reefsurfer's Avatar
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    QUOTE:the UPSB is just a plenum with water going through it.

    If I remember correctly the idea of a plenum is so that there is anaerobic bacteria living in there which help turn crap (i forget if the corect term is nitrate nitrite or amonia) into gas which then leaves the aguarium and enters the atmosphere. What you have sounds like a undergravel filter, which are nitrate (not sure maybe nitrite) factories which will accumulate and are algea food. Though I dont know if this has anything to do with your problem it is surely not helping, or at least defeats the pupose of the plenum.

    Are you saying that your sump is nutrient free and there fore algea cant grow in it? If the 2 are conected than IMO the nutrients are in your water and are the same everywhere in your system, sump and display.

    Did you at one point feed realy heavily? Your sand bed could be saturated in which case removing it isnt a bad idea at all. Ive also heard of people syphoning out sections of their sand beds with success. Though I agree that you should remove your plenum/undergavel filter.

    In your place i would reconsider removing all sand beds from your system. Some form of sand bed is bennificial to the micro organisms that feed on crap, reproduce in your tank, and feed corals. Having a dsb in your sump might be a good way to isolate it in case something happens and you need to take it out or clean it up(syphon it out)

    Im not trying to convince you to keep a dsb, just trying to get to the bottom of what may be causing HA.Good luck with the new set up, now you get to have crazy flow in your tank if you want! The SPS will love it
    PLEASE SEND ALL ACROPORA FRAGS TO THE REEFSURFER

  10. #10
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    I didn't see what water your using?? if its treated tap water or store bought water that is probly a big part of your problem.
    also, cut out the DT's!! unless you really have a full stocked tank with tons of filter feeders then theres no need for that every second day!! that could cause major water issues.
    get rid of ALL your HAGEN test kits.
    if you have tons of rock and made a wall of rock with little open spaces then that can trap stuff and really fual the hair algea.
    tearing down and starting over is not the answer and will just start the issues all over again. you could clean the rocks in old saltwater with a tooth brush.

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