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  1. #1
    Senior Member tang_man_montreal's Avatar
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    Dart plumbing... Headloss when going to 2 tanks?

    Hey guys..

    As many of you know, I currently have a 180gal reef with a Dart on a closed loop. The return pump is currently a Mag18 providing me with approximately 1100gph after headloss (6ft height)

    I'm incorporating a 60gal cube (2x2x2) FOWLR into the system on the above floor. Total height will be 10ft as this is a split level house. This tank will have it's own closed loop.

    I was thinking of using another DART pump as a return, teeing off from the sump to both the 180gal reef, and the 60gal cube. The DART would replace the Mag18 currently in service. There would only be 90degree elbow placed right near the outlet of the DART. This immediately followed by a 1.5" flap-style checkvalve. Mostly all of the system is plumbed with spaflex. The spaflex leading to the 60gal tank would only be 1" however. I'm not expecting very high flow as this is a sump return; but it does have to be sufficient.

    My question here....

    Is the DART sufficient for this installation? Or do I have to move up to a larger pump like the BARRACUDA?


    This is a diagram of my current plumbing, not including the future 60gal cube. The blue plumbing line is from the Mag18 / sump in the adjacent room.


    This is a picture of the actual plumbing under the 180gal:


    and here's an old picture of the sump room taken a year ago. It looks much better now
    I am Homer of BORG... Prepare to be..OOOO!! DONUT!!!!!!

  2. #2
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    I think your going to have some real issues balancing the water flow because water will want to take the easiest route. You may find yourself having to almost completely shut off the flow to the closest tank to get the pump .. any pump .... to overcome the head pressure and service the tank that is overhead. If it were me I would have one pump for each tank Vince.
    Rob

  3. #3
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    According to the Dart flow graphs, at 10' of head, you will only get about 1200GPH (1/3 of capacity). You could get a pressure-rated pump but I agree with OSD about the flow distribution issues. Two pumps may be easier to do.
    Nick

  4. #4
    Senior Member tang_man_montreal's Avatar
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    OSD, Nick,
    I'd be more than happy with 600gph at the 60gal tank. I just don't want to lose too much on the reef tank side.
    Bearing in mind that this is a sump return, it doesn't need to be HIGH flow. Many think slower is indeed better through a sump (myself included).

    That said, my main concern is the loss that may occur by branching in 2 directions (towards the reef, and fowlr setup). How does one calculate headloss in that scenario?

    My goal, is to have around 1100gph at the reef, which I currently achieve with the Mag18, and around 500-600gph at the fowlr tank upstairs.

    Tuning it won't be as hard as you think... and with my UPS, it won't be off very often either.

    I also like the low power consumption of the DART, which is only slightly more than the Mag.
    I am Homer of BORG... Prepare to be..OOOO!! DONUT!!!!!!

  5. #5
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    I think your total head loss would be calculated in the same manner as you would if it were only one line Vince. Add up total length and elbows as per the calculators at RC.
    Rob

  6. #6
    Senior Member tang_man_montreal's Avatar
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    Not so sure... You may be right, or we both may be wrong...

    If I were sending all the flow up that one pipe then yes. The headloss calculator would work.

    But I'm dividing the flow into 2 separate directions.... meaning that not all the pressure is there...
    I am Homer of BORG... Prepare to be..OOOO!! DONUT!!!!!!

  7. #7
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    agreed but your still pushing all the water through the total of all the pipe. The only way to figure out what is lost for each Branch would be to know the flow rate at the start of each branch. I'm sure someone could figure that out for you based on the pump and pipe sizes. Could be some interesting math going on there.
    Rob

  8. #8
    Moderator cres's Avatar
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    I don't know for sure, but, it makes sence to me that if the pump is capable of supporting 1200 GPH at 10' head and you want 1/2 of that to make the 10' trip, you effectively have to have the other branch at 10' head too. You would accomplish this with a valve, of course, but, to get 1/2 going each way, they would have to match.

    I think you need only worry about the head loss to the higher tank, the other will have to be trimmed to match.
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  9. #9
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    I agree with Cres. I would also use a Gormann Rupp 520 as a pump. These can handle that headpressure no problem, are quiet and don't use much power

  10. #10
    Senior Member tang_man_montreal's Avatar
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    Cres, Toutouche,
    Judging by what you''re saying, can I expect to get 1000gph at the 6ft high tank, and 600gph at the 10ft high tank using the DART?

    Toutouche,
    who carries Gormann pumps?
    I am Homer of BORG... Prepare to be..OOOO!! DONUT!!!!!!

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